There’s a hell of a conversation on Reddit: Sex right now over a request for advice from a woman who is in a boy-girl couple, and is faced with the all-too-common quandary of threesome and sexual fantasy fairness. He wants a girl-girl-boy threesome, and she’s okay with that because she’s bisexual. She wants a boy-boy-girl threesome, and he’s not okay with it — at all.
Is this fair?
She asks,
as the title says: my boyfriend and I are down for having a threesome… but it has to be another girl. (which I’m bisexual so that’s cool) but I also wanted to experience a threesome with another man. I feel that since it’s ok for my boyfriend to fuck another chick, he should be ok for me to fuck another man. but it isn’t. only one dick per fantasy.
He feels that since he is straight and isn’t going to do anything sexual with another man, that it’s ok to bar that experience and get very emotional when I mention attraction to another man while I’m sitting here while he flirts with another woman.
I feel that I am in the wrong here seeing as he is right that he isn’t going to be fucking another girl without me being included. but I still feel a little gypped that he’s allowed to show attraction to other women while I’m not allowed to show attraction to other men.
I was riveted to the responses. This is when advice from crowdsourcing about your relationship can be helpful and open you up to new ideas, and give you answers that can help you put together an answer that is right for you and your situation: I never think there can be a one-size-fits-all answer to relationship questions like this. Still, it’s a common issue that begs for a solution. On the other hand, I don’t recommend crowds for sex ed questions, when you need to know you’re getting accurate sex information about STDs, STIs, birth control, physiology, response, etc.
It gets pretty heated. One guy says she needs to deal with it because as a guy, he explains, it’s perfectly reasonable behavior because “biology makes guys this way.” Others call bullshit on the biology excuse. Another says that while boundaries are boundaries, the guy is being unfair and immature. Some people just plain said it’s unfair, and he’s being a douchebag — albeit a very common flavor of douche. Others are saying outright that the couple is simply not sexually compatible, period.
I keep coming across this issue, more frequently of late, and it seems that fairness ends up in a horrible three-way collision between logic and feeling. Is there a way for this to work? What do you think?
Photo from this Sex and Submission gallery.
she is cool with ffm but goes on to say “I feel that since it’s ok for my boyfriend to fuck another chick, he should be ok for me to fuck another man”. This is illogical becasue she and him both agree they like women in the first place. so does y not just include her name in her quote and say its okay for her man to pick another woman in addition to the ffm girl? this sounds like a double standard on her part. y should she get something extra out of something they both like? unless she doesnt really like the ffm or feels that shes going out of her way to do the ffm.
personally i think 3somes are not helpfull. i feel like relationships are complicated enough without introducing sumone else into it. especially if u want a long term stable relationship.
Interesting take from a guys perspective on why he would actually prefer to have a MMF threesome rather than a MFF.
http://toywithme.com/sexuality/mmf-threesome/
As this is all a matter of perspective, there’s no objective way to call it fair or unfair.
She’s bi so she’ll enjoy the FFM threesome for the sake of it. He’d have to do an effort to do an MMF threesome. She wouldn’t have to overcome personal boundaries, he would, that’s unfair.
He gets to do his fantasy, she doesn’t, that’s unfair.
Calling it fair or unfair is irrelevant, because it’ll be diametrically opposed depending on your point of view. Personal boundaries aren’t something you choose nor something you can easily bargain with, and they both need to accept that and make their peace with it. No need to guilt trip the other for something he doesn’t have control over. No one is being a douche here. It’s too bad that his boundaries are there (and truthfully society imposed that kind of boundaries on most men. Society includes women, by the way), but that’s still a fact you have to deal with.
At the end of the day it’s all a matter of whether he’s worth giving up some fantasies or not.
Another thing she might think about is could a girl with a strap on solve this whole dilemma? What about a transgendered person? would he be okay with being involved with a more gender fluid person? Having been the girl in a very similar situation I found my BF was okay with MMF only if he could choose the guy and he was comfortable with the guy’s gender expression ( he didn’t want me to be involved with a Macho guy since it makes him uncomfortable dealing with the whole alpha male thing). And I certainly was only okay with MFF if I got a say in the girl and could be sure she’s Bi so that I could get something out of it as well.
The double standard of flirting with girls but not with boys is one that needs to be dealt with, if it’s aggressive flirting that might lead the bedroom then save it for people that you’re both interested in (apparently girls) if you have a “we have threesomes but we don’t sleep with of the people alone” situation . But if it’s just having a wink and a smile that shouldn’t set off anyone’s alarm bells regardless of who it’s with, since it’s not going anywhere.
As a male who has had more MMF threeways then the other way around I think that most men are just plain afraid of either their own homosexual tendencies or they are afraid of being seen as being in gay in some way even if that perception is not reality even a remote possibility. I think the first time i was in a threeway with another couple, I know that I felt awkward and a bit uncomfortable in the beginning but the focus was wholly on the pleasure of the woman and because of that singular focus the experience was one that will always remain one of my favorite memories. Since that first experience, I have had many wonderful situations that covered most all of my fantasies in almost every single angle and all of them were wonderful and pleasurable. Fear needs to be taken out of relationships, if your going to be open to sharing your fantasies with a lover and beg them to live out your fantasies, you have to be open enough to listen to their fantasies and be willing to live out them out as well.
Why does the boyfriend have to be bi to be in a threesome with another guy and his girlfriend? It’s completely possible for two men and a woman to have a threesome without the two men having sexual contact, with both men identifying as straight.
The guy’s being unrealistic, is all. All things else being equal, if I were faced with this issue, I would naturally assume that once having engaged in FFM, there would be no way I could refuse FMM. It’s either all of it or nothing at all, unless he and she have some special understanding regarding this, which the couple in question clearly don’t. I’d want to have a say in who the other M is, though, but that too would be true both ways around.
I’m confused about why people are bringing up bisexuality and using his lack of it as a reason for him not wanting to do this. I don’t see why he would need to be bisexual anymore than a woman in a GGB threesome would need to identify that way, and I can think of lots of reasons why a bi guy might NOT want to have a threesome. That seems like a whole separate issue. There are lots of straight men into threesomes, partner sharing, “cuckolding,” and other kinks that involve introducing another man into the mix and having him present. Some are into actually having some kind of sexual contact with the other guy and some aren’t, and the latter doesn’t preclude a threesome.
I’ll try to keep this short. This is not about “fairness” – already alluded to above. The feelings of both people in the relationship need to be respected in the bedroom. For these 2 in particular, that has gotten lost in some of the responses (especially on Reddit), and dare I say even in Violet’s introduction. She says he wants a bgg, she wants a bbg – buts that wasn’t the question the girl posed. What the girl actually said is that she and her boyfriend are both down for a threesome. But he only would want it if it is with another woman. She is cool with a threesome with a woman too. That does not entitle her to deserve another man in the bedroom, though. He is cool with her being bisexual – liking guys and girls. He is not cool with her likingTWO guys. He’s not a d/b for that. She apparently doesn’t mind him flirting with other women, but she thinks she should be allowed to flirt with men because of that. She doesn’t sat so directly, but I’d bet he’s fine with her flirting with other women. What this whole thing is really about is communication, and maybe these two don’t do enough of it. If anything, it sounds like HE’s the only one being honest with his partner about his feelings.
Soooo, because she’s bisexual, he has to be? Not imposing your values on others seems to become a one-way street.
You cannot MAKE someone feel the way you want them to feel. Never ask anyone to do anything you wouldn’t want to do yourself.
She has an interest in same sex play. He has none whatsoever. That doesn’t make him a d/b. Keeping her from her interests would make him a d/b. Forcing her to do something she didn’t want to do would make him a d/b.
The reverse is also true.
One thing I’ve tended to notice when it comes to a relationship between a bi female and a hetero male is that they always seem to be more afraid of loosing the woman to another man, but it doesn’t seem to cross their mind that they might lose her to another woman. I realize that there are probably more women on the 1-2 section of the kinsey scale than the 3-4, but it doesn’t mean the chance isn’t there.
I think my basic take on this is that people are complicated, sex is complicated, and as you add more people it gets exponentially more complicated.
That being said, the position this guy is taking is unfair, and I think at the very least he needs to acknowledge that. Setting aside the question of who is present in the room at the same time, he’s asking to be able to fuck another woman while telling her that she can’t fuck another guy. Now maybe that really is where he is — people have emotions and hangups that don’t have to make sense — but you tend to get farther if you admit that your position isn’t a rational one. And, in this case, I think he needs to be prepared to accept the possibility that she says, “Fine, if we can’t both of us play the way we want, then neither of us do,” and nobody gets a three-way.
As an aside, I only wish I had this guy’s problem.
I’m with Villa on this one. I really did not expect to take the guy’s side in this debate, since… let’s be honest… they’re usually narrow-minded and ignorant when it comes to things like this. But the woman’s argument seems to be based on a quid-pro-quo arrangement; an, “I’ll do X for you if you’ll do Y for me.” (Or would that be, “Ill do XX for you, if you’ll do XY for me”?… never mind.) I don’t believe that sort of mindset has any place in a relationship. Nobody should ever be coerced into taking part in something sexual that they’re uncomfortable with, no matter the reasons why they’re uncomfortable. Yeah, this guy could be against MFM Threesomes because he’s a selfish prick, or a homophobe; but it’s also possible he’s got insecurity issues over losing her to another guy (maybe that happened to him before), or body image issues, or something. Just because she doesn’t have these problems with bringing another woman into their bed doesn’t mean his feelings are automatically discarded. I guess that’s one of the disadvantages of being bisexual but dating a strictly straight person.
If they both feel that a MFF three-some could be something they’d both really enjoy, then by all means they should it. If she’s only doing it to get him to play along with her MFM fantasy, then that’s not cool. And if he’s a selfish prick who’s all about the taking and never about the giving, well… she needs to reevaluate their relationship, and decide if what’s she’s getting out of it is worth what she’s putting into it.
This problem seems weird to me. Why should people tie the mmf threesome to a ffm threesome in the first place? If we look at them as two among many potential interests, the problem gets a lot easier.
If she’s not into ffm, but willing to indulge him, then it seems reasonable to say, “I’m not so into X, but I’ll do it for you. And I’d like you to do Y for me.”
If they’re both into ffm threesomes, great. There’s no need to worry about fair. And, it feels weird to say, “We both want to do X. But I’ll withhold it unless you agree to Y.”
It feels like it would be the same for pretty much any X and Y, be they ffm/mmf or ffm/power-exchange or exhibitionism/nurse-role-play or whatever.
This one is so tough, because yes, it’s absolutely unfair, but sometimes that’s life. I think that partners should be flexible and willing to try things that maybe aren’t on the top of (or even anywhere on) their personal lists, but there are always some things that just leave people’s dicks soft and pussies dry.
I think how workable this is in a particular relationship depends on a few things:
*Are the woman’s sexual needs otherwise being met by her partner?
*How much is she independently into the GGB threesome?
*Is he being honest about this really just not working for him at all, or does he just not want to try?
*How much, if at all, are homophobia and/or jealousy playing into the problem?
*Is the no BBG threesome possibility factor a dealbreaker for the woman?
If a guy is just genuinely turned off by the idea of another naked dude being present, but there’s no homophobia and/or jealousy involved, he’s not being a jerk about it, he works hard to meet his partner’s sexual needs, including exploring other kinks she’s suggested, and she’s independently really into the GGB threesome? As long as it’s not a dealbreaker for her, okay. Yeah, it’s not fair, but what are you going to do? Maybe see if he’s cool with her exploring it with two other guys, but maybe have to keep it a fantasy while with this particular partner.
If the guy isn’t even considering the request, seems driven by homophobia or possessiveness, isn’t otherwise giving and adventurous sexually, and/or she’s ambivalent about the GGB threesome? Whether or not the BBG threesome is a dealbreaker for her, uncool.
My position here is that some fantasies are meant to remain fantasies. He wants a threesome with two girls. Hey, that’s a fantasy for me, too. He doesn’t feel comfortable having sex that involves a guy (though technically the two guys don’t have to touch in that kind of threesome). I’m in the same boat.
The difference is that, knowing that, I acknowledge the need for fairness and I limit the real-life fantasy possibilities of dating a bisexual woman to knowing that, if she ever catches me looking at another woman, I get to put it back and say “You were too”.
Seems like the real thing to do here is have a discussion on what you’re into, what your fantasies are, which ones you’re interested in carrying out, and accept that some boundaries on your end result in boundaries on their end. Some women do want threesomes only ffm. Some won’t go that way unless they also get fmm. You can analyze why people have their boundaries, but even if you don’t know, the only thing to do is respect each others boundaries.
By the way, if he’s secure in the relationship, he should accept that she’s going to look at other guys. It’s bad form to do so right in front of your signifigant other, though, again both ways.